have you guys been sucked into some retarded flamewars lately? i have, and i dont feel very good about it.

one of them, some guy decided he was going to defend that fat star wars kid from being ridiculed, and i decided to try and lend a voice of reason and tell him that it isn't that big a deal. holy shit, did that ever turn sour.

another one is that stupid doom 64 thing. those guys bugged the hell out of me, and the worst part is that one of the rational team members has now made a post, and he doesn't understand why everyone is complaining.

then there's this gem, which i don't see going anywhere but south since my city is so full of idiots it would take a thresher to clear a path for an intelligent thought.

what am i on crazy pills? whats wrong with these people and why do i feel like i'm trying to build a house of cards in the dark

He shrugged. 'Whatever.'

'Aw, Darac, come on; argue, dammit.'

'I don't believe in argument,' he said, looking out into the darkness (and saw a towering ship, a capital ship, ringed with its layers and levels of armament and armour, dark against the dusk light, but not dead).

'You don't?' Erens said, genuinely surprised. 'Shit, and I thought I was the cynical one.'

'It's not cynicism,' he said flatly. 'I just think people over­value argument because they like to hear themselves talk.'

'Oh well, thank you.'

'It's comforting, I suppose.' He watched the stars wheel, like absurdly slow shells seen at night; rising, peaking, falling... (And reminded himself that the stars too would explode, perhaps, one day.) 'Most people are not prepared to have their minds changed,' he said. 'And I think they know in their hearts that other people are just the same, and one of the reasons people become angry when they argue is that they realise just that, as they trot out their excuses.'

'Excuses, eh? Well, if this ain't cynicism, what is?' Erens snorted.

'Yes, excuses,' he said, with what Erens thought might just have been a trace of bitterness. 'I strongly suspect the things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the excuses, the justifications, the things you're supposed to argue about, come later. They're the least important part of the belief. That's why you can destroy them, win an argument, prove the other person wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place.' He looked at Erens. 'You've attacked the wrong thing.'

'So what do you suggest one does, Professor, if one is not to indulge in this futile... arguing stuff?'

'Agree to disagree,' he said. 'Or fight.'

'Fight?'

He shrugged. 'What else is left?'

'Negotiate?'

'Negotiation is a way to come to a conclusion; it's the type of conclusion that I'm talking about.'

'Which basically is disagree or fight?'

'If it comes to it.'

-- 'Use of Weapons' - Iain M. Banks

Posted by Jon R from 213.107.224.6 @ 05/16/2003 07:17 AM CST

awesome

Posted by mewse from 24.76.13.157 @ 05/16/2003 07:27 AM CST

That book was very strange.

The last thread I seriously contributed to on doomworld turned into a mindless flame war, and really annoyed me. I think it was deep trying to convince me that a quartz battery was equivalent to a turing machine.

Posted by Jon from 62.31.255.83 @ 05/19/2003 04:06 AM CST